Most assume theyll get the stats that are reported per transfer without knowing if theyll get eligible blasts or not. He provides weekly summaries of the latest IVF research and posts on Facebook, Instagram and TikTok regularly. Lack of common pregnancy symptoms like morning sickness or breast soreness after a positive pregnancy test. Chemical pregnancy facts. My RE didnt change a thing between round 1 and round 2, and I didnt do anything differently. The educational health content on What To Expect is reviewed by our medical review board and team of experts to be up-to-date and in line with the latest evidence-based medical information and accepted health guidelines, including the medically reviewed What to Expect books by Heidi Murkoff. With a PGS tested embryo this time. Im sorry to hear of your loss! Thinking of you , Thank you Yes, its A LOT and its weighing heavy on me since last week (when I got the call from my RE). This is all so hard and stressful. Was just curious if the percentages of a live birth increase after a positive pregnancy test. I am currently 6w5d pregnant, which is the farthest Ive been. Pre-implantation Genetic Testing for Aneuploidies (also known as PGT-A, or historically known as PGS or CCS) is a diagnostic tool to tell your fertility doctor which embryos are likely to be chromosomally-normal and thus which to transfer. I'm sure that is REALLY frustrating to have a loss after spending all that money to get "good" embryos. Sometimes something as small as a polyp that can be removed, can cause implantation to fail. This is my second failure of a PGS tested embryo, and the first on this immune suppressing protocol. However, theirsample sizewas small. The test uses an algorythm and brings together age (in my case 44), the nuchal measurement of the foetus (which was normal) and the values of PAPP-A and Beta HCG from a blood test. MENTS my 3rd FET was a success end MENTS. In this post well learn more about IVF with PGS success rates for euploid embryos. Dr is responsible for allowing . I am new to the online support groups and considered joining months ago but struggled to even bring myself to put my story out there. Ive never had one. My second Beta I dropped to 59. I did not do an ERA although I know a lot of people who have and have gathered helpful info from it. 2 - IVF BFN I also know that no one can make this decision for me. The embryo biopsy can be utilized to perform preimplantation genetic screening or PGS. Is it because they were early blastocysts? Some of the reasons quoted werent even about the patient: it could have been damaged during the biopsy or thaw process in the lab, the transfer process could have been off, theres a margin of error with the testing itself, pgs doesnt tell us everything about an embryo, etc. I dont see myself spending a fortune on acupuncture again. Whitney et al. One thing Ive definitely learned from all of this is to trust my gut instinct. Can I ask why they didn't test them on Day 5? The RE I ended up with said "lets fight for this!" As mentioned in the study, about 72% of mosaic miscarriages occurred between observation of the gestational sac (3-5 weeks after transfer) and fetal heart beat (6-8 weeks after transfer). Unfortunately this isnt very clear at this point. After the first, we did the era and added the endo scratch. That embryo implanted but resulted in a chemical pregnancy. A Group Leader is a What to Expect community member who has been selected by our staff to help maintain a positive, supportive tone within a group. Group Owners uphold the core values of the brand by reporting content that violates the community guidelines. Currently 8 weeks. (2021) in their multicenter prospective trial transferred 484 euploid, 282 low mosaic (where 20-30% of the cells are aneuploid) and 131 moderate mosaic (30-50%) embryos. And demand that my lining be over 8 before I allow another transfer to occur? Good luck and wishing baby dust your way soon! Interestingly enough my protocol remained the same between my chemical FET and the successful one. I feel so lucky that I found this community. Additionally, my RE says sometimes they will recommend these medications even if you test negative but have recurrent pgs transfer failures with no other explanations (you might want to search autoimmune immune protocol on these boards). I guess this probably qualifies me as a poor responder which obviously doesn't feel good after all the other issues we've had. Did anyone else have success after failure with PGS? What to Expect supports Group Black and its mission to increase greater diversity in media voices and media ownership. Did you do anything different with your FET? - continued the same above protocol with the only change was that once I got my first positive beta (63) they had me increase the progesterone suppository to three times a day. PGT-A is generally recommended for women >35, and the majority of cycles in the US in 2020 were for women >35 (62%). Good luck and dont give up on hope yet! I had been on birth control since I was 18 and had no idea what to expect when I came off it. The chart below, based on information published in Reproductive Biomedicine Online, in 2016, shows:. Why do we have to wait until we have a second devastating failure? We decided to start with IUI with clomid which resulted in another chemical pregnancy. I did PGS testing. Best of luck to you. And since then Ive had medical issues that havent allowed me to try again until last month. I did acupuncture that cycle. But if you dont like the extra meds you could talk with your current or new clinic about not doing it and get their thoughts on it. Hi lovely people , as per your recommendations I went for another egg retrieval and did pgs testing on 3 embryos out of which 2 came back normal. Chemical pregnancy is an early miscarriage. For your second question, Ill be doing an Embryo News this week that explains a study that compares non-PGS vs PGS tested embryos. If it were me and it was my last embryo I would definitely ask about (possibly even push for) immune protocol and the ERA just to cover all my bases. Im hoping to do another transfer in January. Even though I ended up with no good embryos I recommend it because I think it's good to know now and not later with a miscarriage. IVF is a numbers game. Don't lose hope! Alternatively you can check out my websites tag for mosaic embryos here. Note: I'm also doing a pregnancy loss blood panel to investigate clotting, and am looking into autoimmune causes as well. We put back a normal PGS tested embryo. My AMH was low, around 1.5, FSH was slightly high, and follicle count was low normal. Recurrent Chemical Pregnancy - PGS embryo (and Donor egg ) Advice needed. Bradley et al. Your post will be hidden and deleted by moderators. And Im so sorry about your first FET. Your clinic may have a better idea! Ill have to ask my RE for options. Im surprised there are still doctors out there who do not bring up this protocol. The views expressed in community are solely the opinions of participants, and do not reflect those of What to Expect. MENTS We were devastated after our first pgs transfer ended in a chemical, and unfortunately we went on to have one more before finding success. Youre right! We have not done a hysteroscopy but will ask my dr if we can do one to check and at least rule that out. Good luck to you on this journey and I hope round 2 is successful for you!! At this point I am waiting to start my 5th miscarriage. Or is that the reason they don't continue to progress? Then for my second FET we did an unmedicated FET and it worked. You may want to ask/consider this before moving on for more data before trying with another precious embryo. thank you for sharing! He earned his MSc in 2012 for his research on inflammation and lung cancerand started Remembryo in 2018 to help people understand the evidence behind common IVF topics. In this case the clinic will need to: So the embryo would have to go through multiple rounds of freezing/thawing/biopsy, and this might have an impact on its potential. Hi! Mosaics are embryos that have a mix of euploid and aneuploid cells. My husbands sperm analysis was only very slightly abnormal. It will involved thawing your embryos, biopsying, then re-freezing and ultimately re-thawing if the embryo is euploid and you want to transfer it. PGS Normal FET Results in Chemical Pregnancy *with* autoimmune protocol, Need some Love!!! The usefulness comes when someone who is starting IVF and considering PGS testing. great to know! So they were both frozen on Day 6? Gearing up for FET More studies need to be done. Im so sorry for your losses. But I dont think we can compare those two sets of numbers to really tell if PGS is increasing our success rates per age group. More info in my profile about my testing and treatment, and Im open to answering any questions. Hoping to hear from them soon . Thought just because your embryo iseuploidthat grades dont matter anymore? Ive done intralipid infusions and Neupogen each time in the case I had an autoimmune disorder or natural killer cells so I dont think that would be the issue. Consult with your doctor before making any treatment changes. Dogpark in reply to Mogwai_2 3 years ago. Use of this site is subject to our terms of use and privacy policy. I was doing yoga and walking everyday and meditating. Find advice, support and good company (and some stuff just for fun). We had 4 blasts tested in our first IVF cycle and 2 were abnormal / 1 mosaic / and then 1 "normal". Single embryo transfer both times. I did acupuncture that cycle. Does PGT-A reduce the chances of miscarriage? Did you get your BFP on IVF post the antibiotics or naturally? He suggested an endometrial biopsy instead. This was something that almost all of our embryos had problems with (a high drop off rate of embryos growing in the lab and all were always low rated if they made it to blastocyst stage). They biopsied those 2 embryos and send off the cells for PGS testing. What are the differences between the two tests? Congratulations again on your success!!! Its very disheartening though. Id say if you feel you want the extra testing, push for it. , Ive done embryo glue every transfer but no luck unfortunately :(. Disclaimer: Any studies presented here may be contradicted by other studies. They found that: If you want to read my summary of this paper, check here. (I had these done at a private lab since my nurse wouldn't let me come in early) My last donor embryo cycle was also a chemical pregnancy but no PGS was done. My first FET failed and it was devastating. Going into my second round of IVF I was doubting anything would work. Check out mycomplete guide to embryo grading and success ratesto learn more about embryo development, grading and success rates. We are currently waiting on the PGS results from the frozens from our third cycle. This study is considered the best quality evidence currently available for PGT-A (which showed no benefit over traditional grading for women <35 that you read about that here). Theper retrievalstatistic helps to see the chancesbefore PGStesting. I am terrified he wont implant. 1st IVF Cycle with initial low beta results, Day 6 Blastocysts / PGS / embryo "Hunger Games". MENTS THROUGHOUT MENTS What would they tell me and how would they impact protocol differently? He earned his MSc in 2012 for his research on inflammation and lung cancerand started Remembryo in 2018 to help people understand the evidence behind common IVF topics. It provides a greater scope of information to geneticists, it reveals mosaicism within the embryos, as well as minimising the risk of receiving false positive or negative results. That sounds a lot like my dr. Its basically an assembly line in there. I will ask my dr about this. After each failed transfer, my RE did a lot of additional testing including a Yale EFT biopsy for receptivity and a clotting test to see if I needed lovenox and/or baby aspirin. We put both in and im currently 8weeks pregnant. Very frustrating to have an inconclusive. However, I just recently gave birth, so dont give up there are still lots of reasons to be hopeful esp if you make pgs normal blasts. Reminder: I have an integrated glossary in the text (terms are underlined with a dotted black line, and when you tap on it a window will pop up with the definition). My questions is only 28% of our blastocysts passed pgs testing which is quite low from what is predicted for those under 35. I asked her can we do bloodwork to see what couldve caused the miscarriage (I.e immune complex, blood clotting disorder or inflammation) and she doesnt think I need to and how we should proceed with the same protocol again and I dont know how to feel about this unable to sleep. An embryo forms and may even embed in your uterus lining (implantation), but then it stops developing. However we now understand that the chromosomes are only part of the issue. I'm curious if this might have something to do with it. That makes me feel better about transferring to another clinic, which Im thinking might be the best bet at this point! Good luck and feel free to PM me. My dr never mentioned anything regarding epigenetic issues. My current doctor did mention surrogacy as well, especially since the embryo we brought over was our final attempt with IVF. Or is it worth having the actual tests done? Group Leaders arent expected to spend any additional time in the community, and are not held to a set schedule. Your clinic may have a better idea of how things work in their hands. I was wondering what protocol were you on for your second transfer? Im very sorry and hope you can find the strength to continue. With both transfers I did estrogen tablets, progesterone in oil shots, blood thinner shots and low dose aspirin. Your experience is so inspiring, thank you for sharing . I know in our case our embryos had epigenetic issues which meant that our baby that we miscarried probably had structural issues. After a chemical with 2 PGS normals and two miscarriages around 8 weeks (spontaneous pregnancies) and another failed transfer, I found out I had an infection in my lining that can only be detected by a biopsy. no, I just took those 3. Should I just ask for this to be done regardless? So all the aneuploid embryos that were transferred either didnt implant, or miscarried. We did accupuncutre 2x a week prior to transfer and a pre/post on transfer day as well. I just looked briefly online and saw mixed reviews about embryos being damaged when shipped. I have had MENTS one BFN and one chemical on untested embryos on my first round of IVF (I'm 34). So sorry this happened and good luck to you. Praying you did and thank you for the advice! (2018)looked ateuploidembryos (aCGH/SNP) in women <35: Irani et al. 144 abnormal (aneuploid/mosaic) embryos and their outcomes. With the second, the only change was to add low dose steroids. Of course the quality of the embryo is everything but there is significantly more uterine prep with a frozen transfer and I think it helped. Reply Share React AMB425 Sep 2, 2016 11:01 AM (I was taking baby aspirin and Lovenox 2x/day for blood clotting disorders as well as Prednisone 30 mg /day and Intralipid transfusions weekly for elevated NK cells). Next lets look at how mosaics perform in terms of miscarriage (often using euploids as a control so for you euploid people out there, you might want to check the next section also!). HCG was 24 Friday and yesterday went down to 16. I am not naive I know bad things can happen. So no one knew what was being transferred. Thats definitely worth looking into, thanks for sharing your experience! We are so happy about that, we just want this one to be the one. I was told by my doctor that when it is a PGS embryo that is miscarried, it is a 50% chance it was something else with the embryo (structural issues with the organs or placenta) and a 50% chance it was something about the moms body. yes! Please specify a reason for deleting this reply from the community. After 10 days, they came back and said that it was low and that i should mentally prepare myself for a chemical pregnancy. This November I did a frozen transfer with an untested, five day embryo and Im 9 weeks now. For now its probably best to avoid having to thaw and biopsy if possible. My first FET with my only normal embryo was successful but ended at 7.5 weeks with a MMC The devastation was unreal. My husband and I started trying to get pregnant about a year ago (we're both 35). While a PGS normal embryo means the chromosomes are normal, there is more to a baby than just chromosomes and sometimes it just doesnt work. 2005-2023Everyday Health, Inc., a Ziff Davis company. (2016)found nostatistically significantdifference inongoing pregnanciesbetween Day 5 and 6 euploids (78.6% vs 67.4%), but this was reduced by Day 7 (43.8%). 5AB euploid embryo. We Tested the tissue and it was normal (??). We had PGS/PGD testing and an ERA. I did switch clinics in the middle and felt that my new clinic cared more about me and was more aggressive in testing for other things and adding new medications to my cycles. I wanted to point out thestandard deviationof this data is large, roughly 30% for each group. Hi Mogwai_2 Theses are rates for PGS normal embryos. Good luck! However, another doctor (2nd opinion) claimed that Receptiva would only be conducted for implantation failure and for those who had never seen positive pregnancy tests. But after this chemical pregnancy from our PGS embryo, I have a gut feeling there is something else at play and am pushing my doctor for additional testing before another transfer since we only have 3 embryos left after 2 IVF cycles. Im sorry to hear that. 2 - IVF both miscarriages around 6 weeks Trade-offs of PGT-A (or PGS) Best of luck to you. (2014)found no difference inongoing pregnancybetween grades (about 50% for each category). But what about the women who didnt get blasts? There was a greater reduction in the >35 group (10.4% for PGT-A vs 27.9% for untested) compared to the <35 group (13.3% for PGT-A vs 16.1% for untested), however neither of these analyses were statistically significant. But I do have a friend who had 1 embryo shipped from Utah to California for an FET and it was a different clinic that handled the FET. Every positive thing helps! I want to be exhaustive in testing to get to the bottom of the issue, but I certainly don't want to waste time/money on tests we don't need. Please don't give up! We are currently looking to use a gestational surrogate in Texas. Find advice, support and good company (and some stuff just for fun). You got this! There isnt much data on it, and 2 of the 3 studies found no difference, so it isnt exactly clear. I refused to go into another FET without doing some test or adjusting 1 variable, otherwise it was just repeating the same mistakes in my mind. In large scale Double Blind Randomized Control Trials (the best method for medical protocol research) PGT did not increase your chances of pregnancy, except in some scenarios. Design: Case-control study. I completely understand struggling about whether to do the 3rd retrieval, it is a lot to go through all over again. I'm in a similar situation so will ask my RE about all of this! Some of the issues with the studies included in the meta-analysis were brought up: Future studies should focus on single embryo transfers, and in women >35, to see if PGT-A truly has a reduction in miscarriage rates for this age group. Besides that, there are no gaurantees of both sticking. Note that once you confirm, this action cannot be undone. Sending you positive thoughts . My RE felt that having one good embryo was not a guarantee, so 4 rounds of retrievals it took before we had a few to work with. You have to do whatever you feel comfortable with and its so unfortunate that money plays a huge role in these decisions. Embryoman (Sean Lauber) is a former embryologist and creator of Remembryo.com. However, that information will still be included in details such as numbers of replies. For example, say a 39-year old woman has 3 embryos after her IVF cycle. A chemical pregnancy is a very early miscarriage that happens within the first five weeks of pregnancy. Group Leaders arent expected to spend any additional time in the community, and are not held to a set schedule. Segmental aneuploids: the main source for PGT-A false positives? Success rates for graded euploids are given here https://www.remembryo.com/pgs-success-rates/#Embryo_grades_and_PGS_success_rates. So weve been ttc for almost 2 years. Success is still very possible, IVF treatments are often a trial and error situation as my doctor put it once. I can totally see not doing it though. Im willing to try anything :) thanks for sharing! I know Ive had issues with my lining but for each of the chemical pregnancies we were able to get my lining to at least 8mm with a mixture of puregon and cetrotide injections, instead of estrace, as well as PRPs. Best of luck! Im sorry for your loss My first was also a frozen transfer and I agree, there is more prep involved. Best of luck to you!! Wondering if anyones had a similar experience or has any advice. Multiple losses due to chromosomal abnormality, did you do ivf? I also went for a lot of second opinionsall of the drs said there were many reasons and theories for why pgs embryos fail but its not uncommon. But it seems like the majority of twin pregnancies result in healthy babies. It was an incredibly long and intense process but looking back I did not have time on my side for my eggs so it was the right decision for us. Good luck. I think it would be worth it to do a endometrial receptivity analysis to test your implantation window. Thats what i needed to hear. Group Black's collective includes Essence, The Shade Room and Naturally Curly. You said that The per retrieval statistic helps to see the chances before PGS testing. But it almost seems like there should be another set of statistics for better putting success rates into perspective. Well start with euploids, then mosaics, and end with fully aneuploid embryos. Preliminary studies examine the rebiopsy and transfer of chaotic embryos by PGT-A. If it's any consolation, we also did acupuncture with the failed FET, but not the one that worked. We got to see and hear the heartbeat yesterday. Im so sorry to hear about your losses but so happy with your current miracle. (2016)looked at over 18,000 Day 5 embryo biopsies (usingthe older SNP technology) and reported the chances of an embryo beingeuploid(based on age): So up until 37 theres about a 50% chance of each blastocyst being a euploid, this cuts in half to about 25% at 42. IVF/ICSI #3 another chemical with two frozen embryos left over. I ended up taking Lovenox and Prednisone and doing an endometrial scratch biopsy and ERA. END MENTS We really expected to find success with our first pgs transfer even though our company and RE only quoted 60% odds per embryo transferits a good but tough reminder that its not expected to always work. For the autoimmune stuff above I was tested by Alexander Kofinas. After I had my 3rd, my doctor and the IVF nurses all pushed for an ERA saying that even though Ive had prior success, that may have just been luck and my optimal window might be different than what I was doing. Dear ALL0130, thank you so much for your reply and encouragement! We respect everyones right to express their thoughts and opinions as long as they remain respectful of other community members, and meet What to Expects Terms of Use. Comprehensive Chromosome Screening (CCS) is one technique of PGT-A that can identify whether an embryo is XX (female) or XY (male). what were the extra things you did besides Lovenox/prednisone, biopsy and ERA? He also answers questions in his private Facebook group. My lining a week before transfer was 6.8, but trilaminar lining was present. A Group Owner is a member that has initiated the creation of a group to connect with other members to share their journey through the same pregnancy & baby stages. Trying to be strong and not make the holidays about my loss for the sake of my family, not sharing the news either until after. An embryo with more or fewer than 23 chromosome pairs may be at increased risk of miscarriage or certain genetic disorders. It had an extra chromosome from the sperm and another from the egg. So crazy that its what finally worked. We transferred our only day 6/PGS tested Euploid embryo on December 10,2020. I have expressed my concern but my RE believes it is more about the pattern. I didnt realize you could transfer your embryos to another clinic. Consult with your doctor before making any treatment changes. We strive to provide you with a high quality community experience. Thanks for commenting! Sorry to hear about your recent cycle. Last January we found out we were pregnant but had a miscarriage at 7 weeks. According to the authors, the >35 group analysis should be interpreted with caution as the sample size was small. Overall, I really wish clinics and REs were more straightforward about odds of success esp with pgs since I think they can be a little misleading. I have a whole page dedicated to mosaic embryos. A Group Leader is a What to Expect community member who has been selected by our staff to help maintain a positive, supportive tone within a group. It was a chemical pregnancy. Please whitelist our site to get all the best deals and offers from our partners. Reminder: I have an integrated glossary in the text (terms are underlined with a dotted black line, and when you tap on it a window will pop up with the definition). First, PGS improves pregnancy rates. Learn more about, Learn About What to Expect's Pregnancy & Baby App. So what gives now?? Once they see it on an U/S, I think it becomes a clinical pregnancy. I plan on asking my RE for a Recurrent loss panel to be done and autoimmune testing (NK cells etc)and a different protocol. Then she went into all of the horrible statistics with twin pregnancy. But wait! The majority of these studies used double embryo transfers, either when transferring euploid embryos, in the control untested groups, or both. Use of this site is subject to our terms of use and privacy policy. Success rates with chromosomally normal embryos, complete guide to embryo grading and success rates, https://www.remembryo.com/pgs-success-rates/#Embryo_grades_and_PGS_success_rates, They also found that the chance of getting a complex abnormal embryo increased with age, Graded as excellent (AA) or good (AB or BA) = 50% live birth, Graded as excellent: 84%ongoing pregnancy, 0% miscarriage, Good: 62%ongoing pregnancy, 3% miscarriage, Poor: 36%ongoing pregnancy, 19% miscarriage, Thaw the embryo and culture it until it can be biopsied (this may take a few hours to a day), If the 2nd test comes back euploid and you transfer, another thaw will need to be done. Has anyone had a similar experience but had a viable pregnancy. If you want to read more about rebiopsying embryos, check out my archives for embryo rebiopsy. I am so frustrated and emotional, I am not having any pregnancy symptoms, beside some minor vaginal cramping and sore breast. Please select a reason for escalating this post to the WTE moderators: Connect with our community members by starting a discussion. We did do some things differently, however my RE did these things more to appease me because he knew how frustrated I was than because he thought they were medically necessary. MENT I got a natural BFP at 34yo with an FSH of 38 and had no issues with my pregnancy. No PGS testing Congratulations on your pregnancy xxx I also want to add low dose prednisone and lovenox - I have heard from so many of you that even IF no autoimmune issues are found that this combo helps.
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